Sunday, February 21, 2010

I've Got Your Daas Torah RIGHT HERE!

(With only one week left to Purim, I feel compelled to take a break from the merriement of Adar and post this one "public service/safety" post. I promise there are more, "lighter" posts ahead....)

I said my piece last year with regards to Purim drinking and undoubtedly nothing much has changed.
Yeshiva bochrim will still employ peer pressure to glorify drinking (under the guise of doing a mitzvah, no less).
Parents will still throw up their hands, act helpless and relinquish control of their teenage boys.
There will still be the "it's not so bad... lighten up..." crowd, who in my mind are worse than the the hand-thrower-uppers because they are legitimizing the behavior.

There's really nothing left for me to say but to post this very important link for your listening pleasure.
Please take a moment to listen VERY CAREFULLY to what Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky says about drinking on Purim. I urge you to care enough about your children, you neighbors and your community to listen to the entire recording, but if you cannot, at least listen to the first 13 minutes and pay particular attention to what Rav Kaminetsky says between 11:15-12:30 on the recording.

Wishing everybody a happy and safe Purim!!!


Staying Afloat said...

There's also Click on Lechaim video on the left to watch the movie.

Hasya Ya'ara said...

I totally agree with you.

Happy Purim!

G6 said...

Staying Afloat -
Thank you for that very powerful video link.
I wish that all those children who are tempted by alcohol AND THOSE MISGUIDED ADULTS who encourage the behavior would watch it in its entirety as well.....

Orthonomics said...

The Lechaim video does a good job portraying the pushers and enablers around us.

ProfK said...

I've linked to this posting, an important one to get in front of as many people as is possible. Halevi that next year we should none of us have to broach this topic.

daughtersintheparsha said...

I agree with you completely, but once again I bring back the issue I remember "discussing" with you last purim on this forum:
telling a 19 what he can or cannot do can be very difficult EVEN if you have a great relationship with him, EVEN if you can turn off his phone and take away his car keys and basically stop every privelige he has. You cannot physically restrain him, and if he is in a yeshiva that says and does NOTHING about boys going around collecting and going to houses where IRRESPONSIBLE ADULTS give out drinks, there is not much you can do. clearly you and your boys were not challenged with this, based on their personalities and where they were in yeshiva, etc. there are us parents out here who do NOT have l'chaims on shabbos, do NOT laugh off our sons drinking wine, do NOT condone or throw our hands up. We have good, solid boys who are respectful and follow most rules, but the teenage pressure for some boys is difficult to fight, especially if it is important to them to be part of a group. not every boy has strong morals of his own, and when he is with a chevra he feels important, and part of the group.

I HATE HATE HATE the drinking, carousing, vomiting, etc. But, yes, I am a mother who throws up her hands and worries all Purim- b/c my son is not little anymore and I can't lock him up, and EVEN the threat of no cash, phone, car, anything, for a whole year, is not enough to entice away from something the YESHIVA WORLD CONTINUES TO PROMOTE.

and I am even more furious at the "G'virim" of communities who have big food fest parties for these boys, with the booze flowing. who will speak out against them? NO ONE: because on Purim they are very generous with their checks. It is a sick cycle, and if we complain too much we, the anxious mothers, or concerned fathers, are labeled: old fashioned, not understanding the yeshivish mentality, foolish, etc. etc.

G6 said...


Yes I remember our discussion (and was waiting for you to "weigh in", lol)

Regarding 19 year old boys, I have two things to say:

1) You don't birth them fully formed at 19. Education is a process and if you've never had serious discussions about the dangers and foolishness of substance abuse at the age of 5, 6, 7, 10, 13 and 15 etc., you can hardly expect to control your 19 year old. One must start talking to children YOUNG. (I don't quite know why you attribute the fact that my boys don't drink to their Yeshivos or lack of peer pressure. Let me tell you that peer pressure is EVERYWHERE and that their "personalities" as you put it, are a result of years and years of making this issue a priority, not something inborn in their genes...)

2)Sit down with your son and MAKE HIM WATCH the ENTIRE video link that Staying Afloat posted. It does, as Orthonomics mentioned, do a wonderful job of portraying the "pushers" and enablers and the peer pressure. Yet, in the end, it's a true story and boys (the lucky ones some might say) died!

And frankly, if I had a real reason to be concerned after talking to my son about Purim in his Yeshiva - this is his LIFE we are talking about after all - I'D TAKE HIM HOME FOR PURIM!! A bit extreme? Maybe. But if I were truly concerned that my son might be doing something to endanger his life, I wouldn't think twice.

In conclusion though, I agree that the next step MUST come from the Yeshivos and their hanholo. It's time to stop making drinking "cool".

G6 said...

PS to DIP -

Please also click on the link LISTEN to Rav Shmuel ... WITH your son. Let him hear it from the mouth of a Gadol.

FBB said...

We get groups who come collecting, and after the year when a kid was literally falling down drunk as he tried to get in the door we made a new rule. If anyone is visibly drunk in your group, then have a nice Purim, but we will not give you any money.

Drinking at a seudah under supervision is one thing, and drinking while in a car and getting wild and throwing up on people's front walk is completely unacceptable.

daughtersintheparsha said...

when he comes home for shabbos this week, I will do so.

you DO know that I agree with you most of the time and we come from the same place ;)

G6 said...

I'd go one step further on your rule.
I'd call up the Rosh Yeshiva and tell him *why* I didn't give!

I don't take our dialogue in any way personally (unless you post under an alternate pseudonym :P), even if we do disagree (which I don't think we are necessarily). I hope you know, that I make these statements because I feel that we as frum Jews have a responsibility to ALL the children of klal yisroel.

Yekkishe Bekishe said...

Why not do it the old fashioned way? If it says in Shulchan Aruch to drink more than usual during the Seudas Purim, that's what you do. Not drinking while running around with a group of your friends. Furthermore, it says in Shulchan Aruch to drink wine, not whiskey - even Johnny Walker Blue Label or Glenfiddich 100 year old. BTW,who says that giving to Yeshivos is a bigger Mitzvo on Purim. If anything you are taking away from Matonos Loevyonim which is a Purim specific Mitzvo.

daughtersintheparsha said...

see my post for a continuation of this topic:

G6 said...